His Majesty King Abdullah II
His Majesty King
Abdullah II
Interview
with Ehud Yaari of Israel Television Channel 2
February 24, 2007
Yaari: Your Majesty thank you very much for granting this interview to Israel
Television Channel 2. May I start in sort of unconventional manner by saying
that since you have accepted our request for the interview, I suspect you, I
assume you may have a message that you would like to convey to the Israeli
public.
HM King Abdullah: In a way we all do. We find ourselves at this very important
crossroads, I think, in all our lives in all our futures. Whether it is Israeli,
Palestinian, Jordanian, Israeli-Arab. What I do feel really is the last
opportunity for peace for all of us to live in peace and harmony in the future
that you know his late Majesty King Hussein and late Prime Minister Yitzhak
Rabin, I think, wanted for their peoples and for the region. With the momentum
that is going on not only with the Americans and the Quartet, with the Israelis
and the Palestinians, but also the re-launching of the Arab Peace Initiative,
the interest of Muslim countries beyond the borders of the Middle East that are
interested in reaching out to Israel to finally solve the Israeli-Palestinian
process. This is the golden opportunity that is in front of all of us.
Yaari: You were saying, Your Majesty, the last opportunity, and before that you
were quoted in some places saying that if we do not make progress within the
next six months or so, then the train may be out of the station.
HM King Abdullah: I do believe that. I think the circumstances in the Middle East
have changed so much that really this is our last opportunity. We have all this
momentum moving in the right direction at the moment. We need to be able to
reach out, I think, to the Israeli public and say, look, we have this
opportunity once and for all to solve the problem. We believe that the future of
Israel is not to the borders of Jordan or to Syria or Egypt I think the future
of Israelis is to be fully integrated into the neighborhood, and finally solve
the Israeli-Palestinian problem so that we do have a two-state solution.
Otherwise I think we’ll always live under the shadow of, for example, this
summer.
Yaari: Do you get the feeling that the Israeli leadership, Prime Minster Olmert,
others share the same sentiment that you have that this is the last opportunity?
HM King Abdullah: I think they understand that this is a last opportunity, but
again, I think historically from my limited and humble experience, people are
sometimes too focused on sort of the tactical issues and forget to look at the
strategic, the bigger picture. So today it's sort of what one side is doing and
what the other side is not doing, as opposed to the comprehensive picture of
being able to have a final peace that Israel is fully integrated into the
neighborhood. And I believe that is what Israelis would like. And I think that
is the price that I hope Israeli positions will focus on.
Yaari: What should be done in your opinion, Your Majesty?
HM King Abdullah: The negotiations have started. I can say they have started, not
as well as we had all expected, but it is a move in the right direction. To keep
in mind that it is not just an Israeli-Palestinian discussion, that there is the
re-launching of the Arab Peace Proposal, add to that Muslim countries and these
Muslim countries are … probably the largest Muslim communities in the world.
They are democratic nations and economic powerhouses in their part of the world.
These countries are also interested in extending the hand of peace toward
Israel.
Yaari: You are speaking also of such states as Malaysia, Pakistan and Indonesia?
HM King Abdullah: There are Asian countries that are willing to come in and sort of
change the dynamics of things as long as we move the two-state solution forward.
So I think the Israeli public, I mean politicians will obviously see the mood of
the public. Does the public want peace? This is an opportunity once and for all
for Israelis to be able to move on with their lives, and all of us in the region
to be able to move on with our lives. I think this is a message not only to the
Israeli public, this is a message that we extend also to the Palestinian public.
This is a critical time for people to make up their minds. We have this
opportunity that I do not think will be around forever, and, as I said, I think
we only have this limited opportunity to take advantage of.
Yaari: But Your Majesty, many Israelis would ask you how do you launch a dynamic
peace process now when the Mecca accord is perceived by many Israelis also at
the top level as a setback. Because you have now on the Palestinian side a
possibility that a national unity government will emerge which does not accept
the benchmarks set by the Quartet.
HM King Abdullah: I fully understand the perception in the Israeli public, and I
believe the attempt of the Mecca accord was to stop the violence spiraling out
of control between the Palestinian factions and to try to create a movement
where they could step forward. There is a government that is going to be formed.
Now not just the international players, but also the Arab countries are also
expecting the new Palestinian government to adhere to the policies that we have
set out in the Quartet and in the Arab Quartet also. So you have President
Mahmoud Abbas who is your negotiator, who is prepared to be able to move the
peace process forward, and the government that it is going to be formed will
have to adhere to the Quartet conditions but also to our conditions too. So you
are not alone on this, there is international common grounds not just Western
but also Arab and to some extent Muslim that believe there have to be certain
criteria that the new government has to accept if we are going to move the
process forward. So when I say we are reaching out to the Israeli public we are
also reaching out to the Palestinian public. Is this the time for peace? And do
you want peace? And your leaders on both sides have to make that decision.
Yaari: Do you share the sentiment of many on our side basically what we have
here with the Mecca agreement, is Fatah, President Abu Mazen trapped in a Hamas-led
government?
HM King Abdullah: No, we are looking at this as…. we in Jordan do not look at
organizations, we are looking at a Palestinian president who is willing to move
with the negotiations, whose government that he is forming knows and has given
him the mandate to start negotiations with the Israelis, and as I said again, a
government that we expect to be in full compliance with the Arab accord as well
as the international commitment.
Yaari: And if they do not, if Prime Minister Haniyeh keeps saying I’m not going
to do that?
HM King Abdullah: Well look, the problem is on either side. You are going to have
people that are not… or will find excuses not to move forward. We’ll never find
circumstances that are going to be ideal. This is fifty years of conflict and
bloodshed, but I believe what we are trying to do is to reach out to the Israeli
and Palestinian people and say look, your politicians really take the directives
from you. Are you going to miss this opportunity, or not?
Yaari: Can there be a major Arab contribution, let's say the Arab Quartet the
neighboring moderate Arab countries in order to help launch these negotiations?
HM King Abdullah: I think what we are talking about is re-launching the Arab Peace
Initiative that was done by King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia in 2002. That is going
to be re-launched, and, again, there is an interest from Muslim countries to be
able to join that. So I think that is a pretty powerful group and I think a
pretty powerful message to the Israeli public.
Yaari: Is there a possibility of an upgrade, any improvement, any expansion on
the original text of the Arab peace initiative? This has been contemplated I
believe in some Arab summits before.
HM King Abdullah: But you have to understand it. When the Arab peace proposal
initially came out it was done in such way to reach out to concerns that the
Israeli public would have. Obviously, no proposal that is going to come from any
negotiating side is going to be a hundred percent perfect for the other, but
even if you look at the wordings, I mean they were as flexible as possible to be
able to reach out to the Israelis to say look the Arabs are serious about peace,
they genuinely want to move the process forward. I think what they have to look
on is the spirit of any declaration or any movement forward. Obviously, once it
becomes negotiations then every thing can be worked out, but people tend to look
at the fine print on a document like this, and what we should look at is the
spirit of what is being offered here by Arab and Muslim nations.
Yaari: Is there a possibility that in case negotiations are resumed full steam
with the Palestinians, Israel at the same time or parallel to that will have
negotiations with the Arab Quartet with the Muslim countries that join on
normalization in the region on the future relationship?
HM King Abdullah: Well, I think everything is possible. I think what we need to do
in the short term is to be able to launch the Israeli-Palestinian process that
then allows movement on the Arab Muslim side. How the sequencing goes, that is
something to be sorted out. But you have this momentum, in other words Israelis
and Palestinians are not alone in this process. It is not just the whole
international community, but for the first time new dynamics. Here we have Arab
and Muslim countries that want to move the peace process forward to finally
solve the two-state solution, which then allows for Israel’s full integration
into the region.
Yaari: Your Majesty, you were saying right there from the outset that this is a
last opportunity, may I ask you to elaborate, what is your concern?
HM King Abdullah: Again, I just think that the opportunities that we have are
diminishing, the frequency of conflict is rising rapidly in the Middle East. We
went through an unfortunate issue in the summer of 2006 which nobody I think, I
mean everybody suffered from this crisis, and I believe that the way the
dynamics are changing, that we will find ourselves in a very short period of
time with never being able to push the two-state solution. So if we never have
the two-state solution, then can we ever have peace between Israelis and Arabs,
and Israelis and the whole of the Islamic world? That instability is something
that we would all pay for, for the rest of our lives. And so I think that is the
commitment of how do you want to bring up your children? Do you want to bring
them up in the 50 years of conflict? Is this what we want to give to the
children we are bringing up today? Or do we finally want to be able to reach out
and bring peace and stability to the Middle East. And unfortunately, where do we
have to start is with the Israeli-Palestinian issue that then leads us to a
greater stability between Israelis and Arabs.
Yaari: In what way can Jordan help both Israelis and Palestinians get together
and get to some framework, which will lead us all into a better future?
HM King Abdullah: Because of the relationship that we have with both sides, we've
always been sort of a group of countries that are trying to bring Israelis and
Palestinians together, we are supporting the International Quartet or the Arab
Quartet or other parties to be able to move forward. So I think we are an honest
broker, although I don’t believe that should be a middle man role, and we are
there to support Israelis and Palestinians to move the process forward. Again, I
think the question at the end of whatever I've been saying today is, if we don’t
move forward with the peace process what is the consequence? What is the
alternative? The alternative is a very dark and dismal future, I think, for all
of us, and I don’t think any of us would want that.
Yaari: Were you able to convince the Americans? Secretary Rice was here two days
ago. Were you able to convince them that this is the time to act?
HM King Abdullah: I think what you have seen from Dr. Rice and from President Bush,
not just in this visit, but on previous visits to the region, a full commitment
to move on the Israeli Palestinian process. Dr. Rice has been here again on her
second visit, I believe, in the very near future she should be back again to
visit the region. So I do believe that the President of the United States with
Dr. Rice has all the intentions to be able to push as hard as they can on the
process. So I would say there is a hundred and ten percent commitment from the
president and his administration to move this process forward.
Yaari: And at one point then Hamas will either change their position or will not
count as much as they do count in Palestinian politics.
HM King Abdullah: I think the problem is, we are always trying to look at the sort
of different sides there, I will be quite honest. From the way I see it, there
are a lot of players on both sides and even further a field that do not want to
move the process forward and we can’t give them that opportunity, because again
the alternative is, I think, disaster for all of us. We have to be much more
effective and we need to move faster than those groups out there who like to
destabilize the process.
Yaari: May I switch, Your Majesty, to another burning topic, which is Iran and
its nuclear aspirations. This is going to capture the headlines for the
foreseeable future. What is your position?
HM King Abdullah: I think, you know, as I have said previously we always believed
in a nuclear free zone, I guess that is not going to be reality in our part of
the world. As I said in an interview with an Israeli newspaper recently, the
dynamics have changed because there is tremendous interest to go into nuclear
energy here. So the dynamics have changed in our part of the world. But as
Jordan, we believe that there needs to be transparency on the issue. There is an
international standard, international treaties, and we believe that everybody
should belong to that club and abide by international concerns when it comes to
nuclear energy and any nuclear programs. There is a system out there, and we
believe that we all need to be part of that club to show transparency. I think
the difficulties we are facing in our part of the world is nuclear ambiguity in
an area with lots of conflicts, that creates a lot of tension and sometimes
misunderstandings.
Yaari: Iraq. This I am sure a major concern to you and your Kingdom. You have I
believe something like 700,000 Iraqis who choose to live now in Jordan because
of the unstable situation in Iraq. Do you think there may be a way to stabilize
the situation in Iraq, at least achieve the appearance the semblance of a
specification so that Iraq can stay a unified entity?
HM King Abdullah: Sure, I mean all the countries in the region and further afield
are very concerned about any potential instability inside of Iraq, but we are
working with the Iraqi government, and we are working with all sides that we
have relations with to make sure that we can down play the sectarian conflict.
If this continues to spiral out of control, then it is something that we all are
going to pay the price for. So therefore all countries of the region, and, I
believe further afield, have to be a hundred percent committed in trying to get
the sectarian violence sorted out and trying to give sort of the new Iraq a
chance to succeed. It is going to be difficult uphill struggle, but the
alternative is also pretty dismal.
Yaari: Do you think there is a chance for the new plan which is being
implemented by the Iraqi government, the Americans and their allies, the
security plan for Baghdad?
HM King Abdullah: Well, when President Bush was here with Prime Minister Maliki,
our concern was as long as the plan was well articulated that it was benchmarked
and that we had a time period. So I believe coalition forces and the Iraqi
government will have to make an assessment on how successful they have been. If
they feel that the plan has been on time, benchmarked properly, then continue
with it and if not then call it for what it is and look for alternatives.
Yaari: Thank you very much Your Majesty.