His Majesty King Abdullah II
Excerpts of His Majesty King
Abdullah's Interview
with Lyse Doucet, BBC World
August 8, 2006
LYSE DOUCET: Do you
think that the resolution that has been emerging from New York is too
pro-Israeli, as the Lebanese say?
HIS MAJESTY KING ABDULLAH: Well, at the end of the day, we need to
support this Lebanese government, and all of us need to stand behind the
Lebanese people and [Prime Minister Fuad] Siniora’s government. They are in the
best position, I think, to articulate what is needed, and so we are supporting
the seven-point plan of Siniora, we have Arab foreign ministers going to the UN
at the moment to try and bridge the differences between what the UN is saying
and between what the Lebanese-Arab position is, and hopefully there will be a
positive outcome, but today as opposed to tomorrow.
DOUCET: But they say it’s a double standard, that Hizbollah has been told to
stop all its attacks, and Israel has been told to stop its offensive military
operations, which leaves it to Israel to decide what is offensive and defensive.
HM KING ABDULLAH: This is part of I think part of the bridging that needs to be done...
DOUCET: You think there is a double standard?
HM KING ABDULLAH: Well, at the end of the day, we need to get back to the peace process, and
if one side or another has some leeway to be able to continue military
incursions on either side, then we’re not going to solve the problem. It’s
getting people to the peace tables as quickly as possible. I think it’s all
become very clear to all of us in the region that any unilateral approach does
not work anymore. Israel pulled out of southern Lebanon, but without sitting
around the table and discussing with the Lebanese, pulled out of Gaza without
really sitting down with the Palestinian Authority and discussing how to finally
end the Palestinian problem. And if we don’t actually, it’s not the process...
we need to actually come to negotiations at the end of the day, that the
Israelis and Arabs know what the future is. The grey areas at this stage don’t
help us anymore.
DOUCET: You talk about going back to the peace table, but in fact many Arabs
have said that this draft resolution is a recipe for continuing the war.
HM KING ABDULLAH: This is why we have to have, I think, supporting the Lebanese at this
stage, because if we can’t get the Lebanese a hundred per cent into this, if we
can’t reach out to the Lebanese people, and what’s been so sad about this from
the beginning of the difficulties in Lebanon has faced, we’ve seen a lot of the
Western countries and the United States also say that we will stand by you and
we will be there by your side. The minute action started, everybody left the
Lebanese alone. We need these Lebanese people; we need the Lebanese government
to succeed. You know how Lebanese over the past twenty years have been able to
really rise up from the rubble to build their country move in the future. It’s
being knocked back into the Stone Age.
DOUCET: Is the United States not listening to voices like yours?
HM KING ABDULLAH: I know what all of us have been saying to them; that we need a ceasefire
as quickly as possible. The discussions that we’ve had with the leadership in
those countries is that we understand we need to move to a ceasefire as quickly
as possible. We’re not seeing it on the ground.
DOUCET: So when you say that to the United States, when you say that to Tony
Blair, to George W. Bush; we need an immediate ceasefire, and they don’t listen
to you, they don’t listen to the Lebanese leaders, how do you read that?
HM KING ABDULLAH: The discussions that I’ve had with both President Bush and Prime Minister
Tony Blair is I think they were extremely concerned about the escalation of
violence, about civilian casualties, about the infrastructure so they were
seeing it, the same way I was. They felt that maybe they have a different way,
as we’re seeing in the United Nations, on how to be able to achieve it, of
trying to get a final ceasefire and moving to the political process. We, I think
as the Arab countries and Lebanon, also see it slightly differently, and again I
am hoping that you know, we can bridge those differences in the United Nations
in the next couple of days. If not, then this thing is going to continue for a
few more days or weeks, and the loss of lives on either side are going to
continue. The more that happens, the more difficult it is for us to put the
differences behind and get people to the table.
DOUCET: Do you worry that Hizbollah appears to have been strengthened, not
destroyed in this war?
HM KING ABDULLAH: I don’t think anybody wins in
this war, and ...
DOUCET: Hizbollah definitely judged by the reaction on the Arab street...
HM KING ABDULLAH: I think there is a lot of emotional response to Hizbollah because at the
end of the day, a lot of Arabs feel that this is a resistance group that is
fighting against an occupying power, and we’ve seen that in other Arab
territories, and how long is this going to continue? You can’t destroy Hizbollah,
not as a movement. So, okay you have the bombs today, tomorrow, or after
tomorrow, we will have another Hizbollah, if not in Lebanon, we’ll have it maybe
in Jordan, we’ll have it in Egypt, we’ll have it elsewhere if we don’t solve the
core issues. And again, the core issue is the Israeli-Palestinian one, and the
Israeli-Arab one, if we don’t solve these problems, then for the next ten,
fifteen, twenty years it’s going to get worse and worse and worse, Israelis,
Arabs, Palestinians are going to pay for it, but also the international
community. We are actually being sucked into an abyss, and the moderate
countries that are now standing out there saying look, what the hell is going
on, we’re being marginalised.
DOUCET: So the whole region has become radicalised...
HM KING ABDULLAH: As this issue continues, so does it become more radical and the moderate
countries are becoming less emboldened to stick their necks out because you
know, we believe that the international community will stand behind Lebanon to
try and safeguard the future of the Lebanese people. The Lebanon that we knew is
dead now. Now the challenge for us is do we have a chance to build a new page
for Lebanon, a good one, or is this going to just go into destructive mode and
suck the rest of us into this issue?
DOUCET: You feel cornered then; you have close ties with Washington, which you
need. You have a peace deal with Israel, but the streets are saying to you that
Hassan Nasrallah, the Hizbollah chief is the new Arab hero.
HM KING ABDULLAH: I think that the United States, Britain, the European countries, as well
as Israel have got to listen to what we are saying. We are partners for peace
but we’re not seeing the partners, sort of, challenging us at the same level.
DOUCET: Why aren’t they listening? Because many have interpreted this as being a
green light for Israel to destroy Hizbollah. Well, why aren’t they listening?
What is their agenda then?
HM KING ABDULLAH: Well, the problem is I don’t think there is an agenda out there. I think
it’s piecemeal ways of dealing with the situation, whether it’s the
Israeli-Palestinian one, whether it’s Lebanon, or whether it’s Iraq or the issue
of Iran. I don’t think there is an overall strategy, and this is why I think the
Egyptians, and Jordanians, and Saudis, with a lot of Arab countries, are trying
to get a unified position, because we’re not seeing the international community
dealing with the issues in the Middle East comprehensively. Each time we have a
crisis, it gets far more unstable, and the endgame, or where we’re going to be
leading as the Middle East in the future, is very dim. I can’t read the
political map of the Middle East anymore, because I just see so many heavy
clouds that are over our shoulders at this stage and I really feel and fear for
the future of the Middle East.
DOUCET: Condoleezza Rice called it
the birth pangs of a new Middle East, but it ...
HM KING ABDULLAH: A new Middle East? The way I’m looking at this new Middle East, I’m seeing
what is happening in Somalia, I’m seeing what’s happening in Gaza, I see what’s
happening in Lebanon, I’m seeing what’s happening in Iraq. This is a new Middle
East?