His Majesty King Abdullah II
His Majesty King Abdullah II's
Interview with CNN's Brent Sadler
November 12, 2005
Brent Sadler: I'm Brent Sadler in Jordan's capital Amman, triple suicide bombers
launched near simultaneous attacks against three hotels in the capital Wednesday
inflicting heavy loss of life. Al Qaeda's chief in Iraq the Jordanian born
terrorist Abu Musab Al-Zarqawi claims he ordered the strikes. Here to discuss
the ramifications of those attacks both inside and outside his country, I am
joined by King Abdullah of Jordan.
Your Majesty, how much of a threat does Zarqawi's network pose and do you intend
to smash it?
HM King Abdullah: Well, Zarqawi's network, Al-Qaeda poses a threat to all of us
in the international community and obviously Jordanians had suffered in the past
two days because of the Al-Qaeda threat. Obviously, we are going to crack down
and take the fight to Zarqawi, but this is part of our coalition through the
international community
as countries that band together against this extremist threat.
Q: After you visited the wounded in
hospital you said "when Jordanians get mad they get even." How can you
accomplish that?
HM King Abdullah: Well, we do have contacts internationally. I think that Jordan will look
beyond its borders to assist in bringing these people to justice. But more
importantly how you take these people down is ideologically. This is not a
battle between a Jordanian-born or Jordan or different countries. This is an
ideological struggle between extremist Muslims that have this perverse view of
Islam against the rest of us moderate Muslims.
Q: How do you take that kind of problem down as you put it? What's the way of
undermining it and attacking it?
HM King Abdullah: What we have been doing in several years, and please one of the things that
you have to understand is that the problems that we have had with Al-Qaeda
happened before 9/11 because the Hashemite kingdom of Jordan represents
descendants of the prophet-- the moderate Islam. We have always been targeted.
Myself. My family. Jordan was targeted before 9/11, before Afghanistan, before
Iraq. And last year we launched what was called the Amman Message. Which was a
direct offensive against
these people to say that they have nothing to do with Islam.
Q: So, do you welcome the outrage that followed the triple suicide bombings in
the streets of Jordan? Could that in itself, that public shift perhaps in
opinion, if there has in effect been one, against extremists who live and
operate in your country, could undermine that?
HM King Abdullah: Every country I think that suffers from terrorist actions as we have suffered
recently begins to understand how these extremists operate that they have
nothing to do with religion. So yes the public outcry from north to south,
Christians, Muslims, people of Jordanian origin, of Palestinian origin, have
come together to I think rally against
these people. This is something, I think, allows Jordan one-step forward in the
battle against these extremists.
Q: How much of a concern is it that Iraqi nationals seem to have carried out
these attacks? You have a million Iraqis living in this country.
HM King Abdullah: Going back to Zarqawi we have been very successful in taking down his
operations in the past. He has been targeting Jordan for quite a while and we
have been very successful on a fairly regular basis in being able to take his
groups across because he has used Jordanians. Now he has changed tactics. He is
using foreigners. That means that our security forces have to change tactics
also. That does obviously bring the spotlight on the Iraqi community but I want
to make sure that I
know the overwhelming majority of Iraqis here are our brothers. They are very
pleased to be here. This is something that we as Jordanians are extending to the
Iraqis in their very difficult time, a safe haven from the difficulties that
they are facing inside of Iraq. We have to strike that balance by rooting out
potential threats to Jordan but in
no way endangering the role of Iraqi society here in Jordan.
Q: Historically, the kingdom has played a pivotal role in being a key ally of
the United States. Now that role faces increasing Arab outrage, frustration on
the streets towards U.S. policy and the goal of stimulating democracy in this
region.
HM King Abdullah: Well again, and I know you know this, and I know that if you talk about the
issue of the peace process. The Palestinians know that their strongest ally and
one that has used whatever capital that I have had with the West to be able to
safeguard Palestinian aspirations and the future of the Palestinians or what we
hope is a two-state solution. Similarly with Iraq, we all believe in the unity
of Iraq. Jordan has gone out of its way to stand by Iraqis. And I just want to,
I think, point out that the struggle that we have with Al-Qaeda is not an issue
of politics. It is not an issue of Jordanian policy. They are out to get
everybody. More Muslims have lost their lives to these extremists than all other
religions put together. This is a fight inside of Islam. If this was a fight
against Jordanian policy, why go into a hotel and kill innocent woman and
children going to a wedding? This is the type of people that we are dealing
with. We all have, I guess you can say, our Timothy McVeighs. But this is a
strike against the people of Jordan not the policies of Jordan.
Initially what Al-Qaeda did was target non-Muslim countries to try and use that
as the political cover. But at the end of the day the main target that they have
is fellow Muslims, in other words, what they call takfeer. The ability for them
to call another Muslim an apostate: if you don't agree with me I have the right
to kill you. Although I think that has changed inside of their mentality. I
don't think that you can be a takfeer if you don't go kill people. And this is
what I think is dawning on the Muslim world that we cannot be complacent. We
have to stand out and say enough is enough and this is why we started the ?Amman
Message.? Now where other countries and other religions can help us is don't let
the terrorists or the extremists on either side put us against each other. There
is too much of, in discussion of, we are saying that they as opposed us. If we
can break down those barriers and make sure common humanity is the common bond
between us. Then we will be able to overcome these evil perpetrators.
Q: Lets talk about other countries. Is it possible that the bombers went
through Syria which the U.S. accuses of being a transit point for insurgent
activity, came into Jordan detonated those bombs and is Syria doing enough to
fight the war on terror?
HM King Abdullah: It is a possibility. We have some leads and obviously we are pretty sure that
the four suicide bombers are foreigners. Information, if you listen to what
Zarqawi says and our initial findings are Iraqis. So there are only two
logistical places that they could have come across: either the Iraqi or the
Syrian border. We have had discussions with the Syrian authorities for several
years. I have personally talked to the President on issues of terrorist
organizations that have come across the Jordanian border, that have been
creating instability here. He has assured me on many occasions that he will take
this up and give it his utmost attention and I hope that he will continue to do
that.
Q: But have promises been followed up by deeds?
HM King Abdullah: Well we still have had problems across our borders.
Q: Lets turn our attention to the peace process, which is of course on the
sidelines as it were, overshadowed by the war on terror. How much of an impact
do you think the peace process could have positively on reducing extremism, if
there could be some further progress development in that area?
HM King Abdullah: Well I think that what you said lastly- there has to be progress to
give hope. Where the extremists, I think, gain ground is when there is
frustration. What happened recently, the pullout of Gaza, I think was a very
courageous decision, that both the Israelis and Palestinians need to capitalize
on. It is a chapter of hope for all of us in the region that Israelis and
Palestinians can move forward. We just need to keep the momentum going. When the
momentum stalls that is when the extremists get the upper hand, and that is when
they use frustration to increase terrorist activities against all of us.
Q: Now Zarqawi has effectively declared war on Jordan. And there does seem to be
a degree of personal vengeance here against the Hashemite Kingdom
HM King Abdullah: You touched on one very important issue: the Hashemite Kingdom. Because we
are the descendants of the prophet, because we have the legitimacy to take on
these extremists through Islam, I think that is where it gets personal. Because
it is the ideological boundaries that have been drawn between, I think, the
overwhelming majorities of moderate Muslims and these extremists that have
nothing to do with Islam. And they know that we can call them out on this and I
think this is where it starts to get personal. Because they run out of the
arguments to be able to use whatever rhetoric and whatever propaganda they have
against Jordan or any other Muslim country in this world.
And for Zarqawi to say that this is an attack against the Jordanian regime. It
is not. This is the excuses that Al-Qaeda have used against regimes but at the
end of the day, I think, if I can be truly honest, these takfeeris, all they
want to do is kill fellow Muslims. I think that to walk into a lobby of a hotel,
to see a wedding procession, and
to take your wife or your spouse with you into that wedding and blow yourself
up? these people are insane.
Q: Your initiative to try to win the battle within Islam. What happens if that
fails?
HM King Abdullah: I think it is a failure beyond the borders of Islam. It is a challenge that
many other religions will have to face and if these extremists continue the way
they have been doing, we all pay the price. These people have perpetrated
horrendous crimes from Bali on one side of the world to the United States on the
other. Arab, Muslim, western,
eastern nations have all suffered from this. So it is a challenge that we
Muslims are taking very seriously and is one we are continuing to fight. But we
need to do it together. Muslims, Christians, Jews, Buddhists - all of us need to
come together and stand up against extremism.
Q: Your Majesty, thank you very much indeed for joining us today.