His Majesty King Abdullah II
Interview by CNN with Wolf Blitzer
December 7, 2004
Washington, D.C.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR:
Your majesty, welcome to Washington.
HM KING ABDULLAH, JORDAN: Thank you.
BLITZER: Thanks very much for joining us.
HM KING ABDULLAH: Good to see you again.
BLITZER: You made some noise a few weeks ago when you said maybe it's not a good
idea to hold the elections in Iraq on January 30. Where exactly do you stand on
that?
HM KING ABDULLAH: Well, maybe I wasn't all that -- my statement wasn't clarified to the
international press. What I said is that we hope that elections will be on time,
that Jordan is working with the Iraqis and the international communities to have
elections on January 30.
I did have concerns about the instability. But it's quite apparent to me that
the Iraqi government and the international community wants to stick to January
30. I don't think that they are going to move on that.
I think that we have a responsibility to reach out to the Sunnis at the moment,
who are worried about elections, to say, "Look, elections are going on on time,
and if you don't commit to the elections, then you're going to miss the boat."
BLITZER: So they should take place January 30 as scheduled? Is that your sense
right now?
HM KING ABDULLAH: Well, I was concerned about the -- the insecurity that we see in Iraq.
But at the moment, I think everybody's committed to the date. Unless we hear an
alternative of, OK, we delay elections (ph), why are we going to delay
elections? It has to be a reasonable program, and I haven't heard any
suggestions. So...
BLITZER: A lot of the Sunnis, and you're a Sunni, are concerned. Adnan Pachachi,
I interviewed him recently. He thinks maybe there should be a delay because the
Sunnis, especially in that Sunni Triangle, are afraid to go out. A lot of them
are worried about the security situation.
HM KING ABDULLAH: What I said to the Sunni leadership is that, you know, if you're going
to say delay, that's not good enough. Come up with reasons. Come up with a
program. Come up with something that could convince the international community
why it should be delayed and for how long. And that hasn't happened.
So I think we're -- excepting outstanding (ph) circumstances, where elections
will be on time. And the Sunnis are going to have to step forward.
BLITZER: Is the situation in Iraq, based on everything you know, and you live
right next door, worse than it was a year ago?
HM KING ABDULLAH: Well, the daily images present the impression that things are worse.
But we want to move Iraqi society forward. There is an opportunity with
elections. And I think if we can have elections, that will be a new phase of
Iraq, hopefully a better one.
The problem that we have if the Sunnis do not engage in elections, the new
government will be mandated in writing the constitution. And my concern is if
you're going to write a constitution and part of the society is not involved,
that could create its own problems.
So I'm -- I'm hoping that we in Jordan and Arab countries and leaders can
convince the Sunnis to go to the polls.
BLITZER: But you must be concerned about a Shiite-led Iraqi government that
would be moving towards some sort of clerical or Islamic fundamentalist nature.
That's possible, given the fact that the Shiite leadership, Ayatollah al-Sistani
and others, are pushing for the election.
HM KING ABDULLAH: Right. And again, it's a bit more complicated than that, because I
believe that there are a lot of Shiite Iraqis that look at the independence of
Iraq. Iranian influence, Shiite influence on the Iraqi stage is of concern to
all of us.
So I think people have to come together and move forward. And again, the Sunnis
need to realize that the Iraqis and the international community made their mind
up on January 30. There is no alternative.
And so we need to get them galvanized and to go to the polls.
BLITZER: Are you concerned that Iraqi could split up into a Kurdish sector,
Sunni sector and a Shiite sector?
HM KING ABDULLAH: That is always a concern. And again, my -- my sort of red flag is --
is the constitution. And we have to think out of the box, because you can create
circumstances where the constitution is written in such a way that it excludes
part of society. And that might push people towards civil war.
But I think all of us in the international community are coming together,
supporting the present Iraqi government. It's made very clear the elections are
going to be on time, and we have to get everybody involved.
BLITZER: There have been reports, as you well know, in recent weeks that the
insurgency was being financed in part by Iraqi exiles, Saddam loyalists, who are
based in Syria but also in Jordan. Is that true?
HM KING ABDULLAH: I can talk about Jordan. That's not true. And we would work very
closely with the Iraqi government to make sure that does never happen.
There are queries that there are issues coming out of Syria. That's something
you're going to have to ask the Syrians.
There is an element of insurgency that is a problem to Iraq, and we're working
with the Iraqi government to try and give them as much support to be able to put
those insurgency down. But it's difficult.
BLITZER: The -- but are there Iraqi exiles, Saddam loyalists, who have received
sanctuary in Jordan?
HM KING ABDULLAH: We have people coming across the borders basically looking for a
better life. I mean, a lot of the property that's been bought up in Jordan is by
Iraqis because of some of the instability.
But they don't come across as political. They come across as individuals just
looking for a more stable life.
We do not protect Ba'athi extremists in Jordan and never will.
BLITZER: And -- but Saddam Hussein's two daughters and their families still are
living in Jordan?
HM KING ABDULLAH: Two -- the two girls, two of the girls are living in Jordan at the
moment. Yes.
BLITZER: Will they become citizens?
HM KING ABDULLAH: Well, it's up to them. When they came across, we took it from a
humanitarian point, that women and children needing to find a safe haven. They
know that they're -- they're limited in their role in Jordan. If they wanted to
get into the political issues that are complicated in Iraq, then we have a major
problem with that.
BLITZER: Talk a little bit about Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the Jordanian terrorist,
enemy No. 1, according to the United States government, in Iraq right now. Is --
where do you think he is?
HM KING ABDULLAH: Well, I don't think he's in Falluja, obviously. He's -- I think he's
moved out to -- I don't want to say, but into another part of Iraq. The Iraqis,
Jordanians and coalition forces are working very hard to track him down, and
we're getting close.
BLITZER: When you say we're getting close, based on what? Based on intelligence
you have?
HM KING ABDULLAH: Well, of course, hard intelligence. He's slipped through the net once
or twice, where -- where we got closer to him than he would have liked. It's
ongoing, you know. It's a difficult individual to track down and very difficult
circumstances.
Iraq is a large country, a lot of built-up areas, and he moves from place to
place. But, you know, he's under pressure.
BLITZER: Is he responsible for the murder of the American diplomat Laurence
Foley in Amman?
HM KING ABDULLAH: We believe that he was responsible for organizing the assassination,
that it was his people who carried out the...
BLITZER: Is he directly connected to al Qaeda, based on everything you know?
HM KING ABDULLAH: I think that, Wolf, it's not that simple. I think there's a loose
association with al Qaeda, and I think that groups like this tend to come
together to fight what they feel is a common enemy.
So there is a link, yes. I believe there is between al-Zarqawi and -- and al
Qaeda (ph).
BLITZER: And finally on this war on terror issue, do you have any insight into
the whereabouts of Osama bin Laden?
HM KING ABDULLAH: Well, from again -- roughly, I think that he would be just inside the
Afghan border or on the Pakistan side of the border.
BLITZER: You don't think he's in Iraq?
HM KING ABDULLAH: No.
BLITZER: Let's talk about after Arafat, after Yasser Arafat, the peace process
in the Middle East. Now a lot of people think there -- because the election's
scheduled for January, there's a moment right now where there's an opportunity
to jump-start, to revive these peace -- these peace talks. Do you believe there
is?
HM KING ABDULLAH: I think we have a golden opportunity at the moment.
There are new players on the scene. I think Abu Mazen has the ability to be a
strong leader for the Palestinian people and create new circumstances so that we
can't use the excuse that there's no partner for peace.
This is why I think we're all very excited and very supportive of elections on
January 9. We hope that the Palestinian leadership will organize themselves in
the next couple of weeks. And right after elections, we need to re-invigorate
the roadmap, move the process forward, get Israelis and Palestinians talking to
each other.
BLITZER: Abu Mazen is Mahmoud Abbas...
HM KING ABDULLAH: Yes.
BLITZER: ... the leader of the PLO now, after Arafat. He's running for the
leadership, the presidency of the Palestinian Authority.
HM KING ABDULLAH: Yes, yes.
BLITZER: But he's being challenged by another Palestinian, Marwan Barghouti...
HM KING ABDULLAH: Yes.
BLITZER: ... who's in prison, serving five life sentences.
HM KING ABDULLAH: Yes. That's right.
BLITZER: The Israelis convicted him of terrorism. What do you make of that?
HM KING ABDULLAH: Well, it confuses the issue at the moment. I don't know if it's right
at this particular time. What we don't want is a conflict between Palestinian
leaderships at a time when they need to identify a leader, move forward and
allow the international community to get the Palestinians engaged with the
Israelis.
So yes, it's taken a lot of people by surprise. I think we'll just have to watch
to see what happens over there next several weeks.
But our aim, I think, as part of the international community, is to get a leader
of the Palestinian people identified as quickly as possible and get him engaged
with the international community, the quartet, and the Israelis as soon as
possible.
BLITZER: And -- and so you have confidence in Mahmoud Abbas over Abu Mazen
(sic)?
HM KING ABDULLAH: If -- it comes down to elections. But at the moment, he is a very
strong candidate.
BLITZER: The Israeli withdrawal scheduled from Gaza, should that go forward now
unilaterally, or should the Israelis sort of wait and coordinate that with this
new Palestinian leadership that emerges?
HM KING ABDULLAH: Well, again, the issue of Gaza (ph) is still not fully defined, and
there are still questions being asked by a lot of us. We hope that the pullout
of Gaza (ph) is part and parcel of the roadmap.
If it's a side issue, I think it will confuse the process. And it's still not
100 percent confirmed of what is happening in Gaza, what is the end game. As
long as it's part of the process, of the final peace between the Israelis and
the Palestinians, fine. But that hasn't been clarified fully.
BLITZER: I've been hearing from some Americans who have recently met with Bashar
al-Assad, the president of Syria, that he's ready to start negotiations with the
Israelis once again right now and all free (ph) conditions.
HM KING ABDULLAH: Yes.
BLITZER: But you live right next to him. What do you think?
HM KING ABDULLAH: Well, we've had the same signals. They seem to be positive. I believe
that whenever statements are made like this, let's see where that will lead us
(ph). Bashar will be coming to Jordan the next couple of weeks. I hope to see
and hear positive things from him.
And if he is committed to deal with the Israelis, then let's take a look at what
he has to say and give him the benefit of the doubt and hope that we can move
the process between the Israelis and the Syrians forward.
BLITZER: What did you hear from President Bush about U.S. involvement in the
peace process?
HM KING ABDULLAH: I saw a strong commitment from the president. We've been watching many
press statements. The first one that I thought was very significant was with
Prime Minister Tony Blair, where I think he went out of his way to commit
himself to the process.
He reassured me yesterday that he wants to have peace between the Israelis and
the Palestinians. I have to remind people again, he is the only American
president that identified a viable, independent Palestinian state and
articulated a vehicle, the roadmap, to achieve those ends.
And I think that the president is very keen to move the process. He understands
that we're running out of time and it's going to have to happen within his
administration.
BLITZER: All right. One final question, because I know your time is limited.
There -- the big decision you made in recent days to have the crown prince no
longer be the crown prince. A lot of our viewers are interested in that. They're
interested in your monarchy.
But what was the story behind the story?
HM KING ABDULLAH: Well, just before his majesty passed away, he had said that they
should conference as one (ph). It should just be a law that is with very limited
capabilities. I have four very strong brothers, very, very capable. Two of them
-- Hamzah was the crown prince -- coming back to serve Jordan within the next 12
months.
And basically, this allows him to be able to expand his horizons, get involved
in the issues that he cares about that I believe will really serve the country,
as opposed to being limited by the title, which his late majesty had dictated.
BLITZER: Is he happy about this?
HM KING ABDULLAH: I think this opens more opportunity for him, so it's a challenge,
because it means that, you know, he'll work closer with me, I hope, and be able
to have more of a breadth (ph) of getting involved in Jordanian society.
He has a lot of capabilities that he can bring towards this country, and I'm
looking forward to his return. And I think that you'll see tremendous things
from him.
BLITZER: And your son is now effectively the crown prince?
HM KING ABDULLAH: No. The -- he's only 10 years old, and the way that the system has
been done is that the role of crown prince will not be filled.Depending on
circumstances, if anything should happen, there are instructions and there's a
system in place where the most capable of my brothers will be the one who's
responsible to -- to continue the process.
BLITZER: I hope none of that is necessary. I hope you live many, many happy and
wonderful years.
HM KING ABDULLAH: That's very kind of you. Thank you much.
BLITZER: Welcome to Washington. Thank you very much.
HM KING ABDULLAH: Thank you, Wolf.