His Excellency Nasser Judeh
Minister of Foreign Affairs
CNN Interview with Foreign Minister Nasser Judeh
by Wolf Blitzer
Jan. 8, 2010
Washington, DC
I'm Wolf Blitzer.
You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
The U.S. and Jordan teamed up today, urging the Israelis and the Palestinians to
take new steps toward peace. But looming over these talks, the attack on a base
in Afghanistan carried out by a double agent. It was a devastating blow to both
American and Jordanian intelligence.
And joining us now, the foreign minister of Jordan, Nasser Judeh.
Welcome to Washington.
NASSER JUDEH, JORDANIAN FOREIGN MINISTER: Thank you, Wolf.
Blitzer: I know you've been meeting with the secretary of State, George
Mitchell. And we're going to get to the peace process in a few moments.
But let me pick your brain on this Jordanian doctor who blew himself up -- a
suicide bomber -- at the CIA base in Afghanistan, killing seven CIA officers, as
well as a Jordanian intelligence officer, as well.
What -- what can you tell us about this?
H.E. Minister Nasser Judeh: Well, clearly, I'm not an intelligence officer and I don't comment on
intelligence operations. But I would certainly tell you that this is a -- a war
on terrorism that Jordan is at the forefront of. And this has been the case for
many, many years. Actually, for the past few decades, Jordan was victimized by
-- by terror and terrorist groups since as far back as the '60s and the '70s.
And we've done everything that we could do...
Blitzer: So you're with the U.S. when it comes to fighting this kind of terror?
H.E. Minister Nasser Judeh: We are with all our allies, but most importantly, we're there to protect
our own national interests and our citizens and our country from the scourge of
terror and terrorism.
So this is a global war on terrorism. We're very much at the forefront of this
and we cooperate with our allies. You know, information is one thing -- sharing
information when it comes to intelligence is -- is something that makes...
Blitzer: (INAUDIBLE)
H.E. Minister Nasser Judeh: ...this war much more effective.
Blitzer: Because Jordan has been the victim of these kinds of attacks over the
years, as well.
But let's talk a little bit about this doctor, Humam Khalil Abu Mulal al-Balawi,
a physician.
How did this happen?
Was he -- was he a double agent?
Was he a triple agent?
The reports that we're getting is he was brought to the CIA by Jordanian
intelligence.
H.E. Minister Nasser Judeh: I'm not in a position to comment on operational procedures or on details.
Suffice it to say that we are in this together. And we've seen the reports, just
as you have seen the reports of how he was recruited. And he -- I must say that,
my information -- from what I am aware of -- is that there has been valuable
information that was given, not just by people like this character, but by many
others in this intelligence -- ongoing intelligence operation.
Blitzer: Was he providing valuable information to Jordan?
H.E. Minister Nasser Judeh: I have been led to believe that, yes, he has been providing
(INAUDIBLE)... Blitzer: Because the reports we're getting is that supposedly he
was trying to help Jordan -- and the U.S., for that matter -- find the -- the
number two operative in Al Qaeda in Pakistan, Ayman Al Zawahiri.
H.E. Minister Nasser Judeh: I really -- and I'm not avoiding your question, Wolf, but I really am not
aware of the operational details and I don't get involved with that. I was asked
a question today when giving the press a briefing after my meeting with
Secretary Clinton. And I said neither of us here, the Secretary and myself, are
intelligence officials.
Suffice it to say, once again, that this is an ongoing war on -- on terror. And
don't forget -- and we must not forget that Jordan was a target of terrorists
many times, not least of all the latest incident that took place in 2005, when
three hotels were attacked in Jordan...
Blitzer: I remember it.
H.E. Minister Nasser Judeh: ...and we lost many civilians. So we are targets of these terrorists. And
we will do everything that we can to prevent these terrorists from carrying out
their plans. And we don't wait for terrorists to implement their plans. We try
to uproot them before they implement their plans.
Blitzer: All right, I want...
H.E. Minister Nasser Judeh: And this is...
Blitzer: I want to...
H.E. Minister Nasser Judeh: This is important...
Blitzer: ...move on...
H.E. Minister Nasser Judeh: ...to continue working with our allies on this.
Blitzer: I want to move on, but just to nail down this one point. At one point
you did believe this individual, this position, was providing good intelligence?
H.E. Minister Nasser Judeh: This is a report that we're seeing all over, but again I'm not in a
position to comment on that. All I can say is that we cooperate with our allies,
we pursue our own national interests. I think Jordan has been very, very
effective, and the success stories that we've seen over many years in terms of
the effective way that intelligence operations were handled to pursue terrorists
where they are.
Blitzer: And as far as U.S./Jordanian relations are concerned, has it had a
negative impact, this incident, at all? I mean...
(CROSSTALK)
H.E. Minister Nasser Judeh: No negative impact whatsoever. Blitzer: ... you indicate you've met with
the Secretary of State, everything is back as normal?
H.E. Minister Nasser Judeh: As I said, we've got to look at the track record and we've seen many
success stories and we've seen many effective ways of dealing with terror and
terrorism and pursuing terrorists. Let's look at how Zarqawi was pursued, for
example. And there was another...
Blitzer: Abu Musab al-Zarqawi was the head of al Qaeda in Iraq. Originally from
Jordan.
H.E. Minister Nasser Judeh: And Karbuli, who was arrested by Jordanian intelligence officers in Iraq
itself because he was planning to attack in Jordan again.
Blitzer: All right. Let's talk about the overall war on terror. Thomas Freidman
writes in the "New York Times" this wee. He says this, "No laws or walls we put
up will ever be sufficient to protect us unless the Arab and Muslim societies
from whence these suicide bombers emerge erect political, religious and moral
restraints, as well as starting by shaming suicide bombers and naming their
actions murder, not martyrdom."
Do you agree with him on that?
H.E. Minister Nasser Judeh: Of course I agree with him. Anybody who targets civilians and kills
innocent people and perpetrates terror and terrorism is certainly not a martyr.
I mean I think we have many fatwas, and fatwa, I think, is a common word for
everybody.
Blitzer: It's a religious order.
H.E. Minister Nasser Judeh: Yes. We've had many fatwas by religious figures around the Muslim world
that targeting innocent civilians is certainly nothing that qualifies anybody to
become a martyr.
Blitzer: So why do so many people...
H.E. Minister Nasser Judeh: It is murder.
Blitzer: ... in the Muslim or the Arab world for that matter call these suicide
bombers martyrs?
H.E. Minister Nasser Judeh: I'm not in a position to comment on what people say. Well, our position
in Jordan is very, very clear, and people who target innocent citizens, who kill
and murder children, are murderers. And we've always maintained that.
I don't think you can look at everybody with the same yardstick. I mean there
are people who have their own views. You don't necessarily have to agree with
them. We certainly don't agree with that. But I think what we do in Jordan is --
in terms of action rather than words.
Look at the Amman message, for example, that His Majesty King Abdullah II
initiated a few years ago which explains the true spirit of Islam and which
explains that dialogue and civil relations between people is what should govern
relations between nations, and cultures and civilization, not violence.
Blitzer: Based on what you heard from the secretary of state, from George
Mitchell, the special U.S./Middle East envoy, while here in Washington, is this
Israeli/Palestinian peace process going to get started once again anytime soon?
H.E. Minister Nasser Judeh: I'll get to that in three seconds, if I may, but let me just go back to
Afghanistan and the war on terror. You know that Jordan is present in
Afghanistan and has been present right from the beginning. We have humanitarian
operations there, we have logistical operations, and of course we have
operations that target terror and terrorism, because we have been a target of
that, and we like to prevent that.
And our presence in Afghanistan will not only continue, but it will be enhanced
and increased. And this is, again, as a collective effort with all the countries
that are fighting terror and terrorism, but also to pursue our own national
interests and to protect our citizens and our land.
Blitzer: Jordan has been a very good ally of the U.S. when it comes...
H.E. Minister Nasser Judeh: And that commitment not only stays but it's going to be increased and in
different ways and we'll see that. But coming back to the peace process, I'm
encouraged by what I heard today from...
Blitzer: Encouraged by what?
H.E. Minister Nasser Judeh: Encouraged by the continued commitment that I see from President Obama's
administration, from the president himself, from the secretary of state, from
Senator Mitchell. We've had many ups and downs, but this is the story of the
Middle East conflict.
We've had many ups and downs over many years. We have to make sure that 2010 is
the year that sees re-launch of negotiations between Palestinians and Israelis
in a comprehensive context.
The Arab-Israeli conflict was referred to by President Obama when he first
walked into the oval office as a conflict that needs to be resolved in the
context of U.S. national interests.
Perhaps this is the first time that we've heard it put that way. And President
Obama expressed a sense of urgency at the time. He engaged from day one. We've
seen, again, difficulties on the ground.
Blitzer: So you see no reduction in the U.S. determination to try to help out.
H.E. Minister Nasser Judeh: On the contrary, I see a renewed determination. The most important thing
right now is to get Palestinians and Israelis, and by extension, Syrians and
Israelis and Lebanese and Israelis, to sit together and try to resolve this
conflict. The Arab/Israeli conflict perhaps is also the root cause of many other
symptoms around the world that can be dealt with much more effectively if this
Arab-Israeli conflict is sorted out.
We know what we want. We want a Palestinian state that is independent, viable,
contiguous, and we want a safe and secure Israel. And his majesty the king
refers to this as the 57-state solution.
Everyone wins, Wolf. You have the Palestinians who get their state, the Israelis
who get their security. Syrians and Lebanese will get their occupied territory
back. And you have normal relations between Israel and 57 Arab and Muslim
countries, and you get a region that will be full of opportunity and hope for
the future.
So we cannot give up. I think there's fresh ideas that were discussed today. I
know that the secretary is meeting with other Arab officials and probably will
be discussing this with Israelis as well.
We need to get a conducive environment in place that will enable negotiations to
be launched and that will enable an end-game to be set. We have to refocus on
the end-game and not keep talking about how to talk. Rather than that, we should
be talking about what to talk about.
Blitzer: Well, good luck. Jordan has a reliable partner and certainly can be of
great help to both the Israelis and the Palestinians in moving forward.
H.E. Minister Nasser Judeh: And of course there are complicated issues, when you talk about final
state issues, refugees, Jerusalem, border security, water...
Blitzer: Mitchell says it can be done in two years once the talks start. Do you
agree?
H.E. Minister Nasser Judeh: Well, if we build on everything that has been achieved before, I mean, if
you look at what happened in 2000, and the discussions that were taking placing
with our ambassador all through 2008, you cannot start from square one. You've
got to start on -- and build on what happened from before.
And if you do that, then I think time is quite conducive.
Blitzer: Foreign Minister, good luck.
H.E. Minister Nasser Judeh: Thank you very much, sir.