His Majesty King Abdullah II
CNN's Exclusive
Interview with His Majesty King Abdullah
by Larry King
March 18, 2002
USA
King Abdullah : We're in a tough neighborhood.
KING: Are you the calm of this storm?
King Abdullah : Well, I think, again, His Late Majesty sort of brought some
sort of stability and common sense to the area, and I hope that we've inherited
that attitude, that outlook, to think not only of our own people, but beyond our
borders to bring common sense to the region.
KING: Now let's get to current things. What's the purpose of this trip?
King Abdullah : Well, I'm over here again, trying to encourage support and
investment toward ventures in my country. The economy is moving very well. We
have a tremendous reform ongoing. And it's time to get people interested in
joining it.
KING: The average Jordanian is still very low on the pay scale, isn't it?
King Abdullah : Well, we're doing - low in compared to figures, I think we have
a better standard of living than most, considering that we don't have any oil or
natural resources. Our export or our wealth is really the human talent. And
that's what I'm trying to capitalize on.
KING: Tourism's big.
King Abdullah : Tourism, believe it or not, even with the 11th September and
the intifada actually went up last year. So that kind of shows the stability
that Jordan's all about.
KING: By the way, where were you September 11?
King Abdullah : I was in the air over Nova Scotia when we first started to hear
the news.
KING: What did you do?
King Abdullah : Well...
KING: Where were you going?
King Abdullah : We were coming to the United States. I was actually coming to
Los Angeles and we were going to see the president a few days after that and
then up to the United Nations Security Council. And it didn't dawn on us right
away. I mean, a plane had gone into the building. We really didn't realize the
extent. And I remember going into the cockpit and turning on the BBC World
Service and it began to slightly dawn on us the extent of the catastrophe, and
we headed home. And we realized that it was not the right time to burden the
American administration with another guest.
KING: What times. And the result since, of course, have been...
King Abdullah : Have been. I mean, as shocking and terrible as the 11th of
September was, I think it's been a wake-up call. It's really brought countries
around the world together to try and bring about a new standard. And I think
that it was a timely wake-up call, and I hope that we can finally get our act
together.
KING: We have conflicting reports, as we always do in the American press,
about your meeting with Vice President Cheney last week in Amman. How did it go?
King Abdullah : It went extremely well.
KING: There were some negative -- people were reporting that some things
didn't click. Is that true or not?
King Abdullah : I think everything clicked well. He came to the house. We had
dinner together. I thought it was a very successful meeting. And we are looking
forward to seeing the president in Mexico in the next couple of days.
KING: What is Jordan's role in all of this Middle East quagmire?
King Abdullah : Well, I think we're in a unique role, because we have great
relations with everybody. And in the particular scenario that you're talking
about, with the Israelis and the Palestinians, and obviously with the Arab
countries, so we are in a unique position to sort of break down the barriers and
misunderstanding and bring people together.
KING: Are you a broker?
King Abdullah : I hate the idea of being a broker or middle man, but when we
see problems we can step in and say this is the other side of the story,
encourage and nudge people in the right direction.
KING: There apparently will not be a meeting between Arafat and Sharon,
correct. That's the latest we hear as we talk.
King Abdullah : Again, but things are changing every day. I think that there is
a new emphasis to get the problem behind them, so I believe that in the very
near future I really do hope that we will get the Palestinians and the Israelis
sitting around a table. Whether that's tomorrow, in a week's time, I don't know,
but that's what working on.
KING: Have you talked to President Bush about this at all?
King Abdullah : I've talked on many occasions with the president. I saw him
about six weeks ago in Washington; be seeing him again in Mexico, I hope, on
Thursday, Friday. So obviously the peace process is going to be high on the
agenda.
KING: What is -- you can elaborate all you want -- what is, to the
totally uninitiated, why can't these people stop killing each other?
King Abdullah : Well, I think that the political element has fallen so far
apart that people have gotten themselves into a rut that they can't get
themselves out. And I think that the Saudi initiative reminds the leaders that
at the end of the day it's the people that are paying the price, it's the
Palestinians and the Israelis that are losing their lives.
And the Saudi proposal, in simplicity, basically says that we, as Arabs, want to
have peace with Israel. I think that's an important message to the Arab street,
more important to the Israelis, that there is a future, us together. And I think
the more that the Israelis and the Palestinians can hold onto that, the more
that they can enforce their leaders to sit down and solve this problem.
KING: Were you surprised at the way it was offered, through a "New
York Times" journalists, Thomas Friedman?
King Abdullah : Well, Thomas Friedman is a great friend of the area, and I
think that it was great that it came out. I think it was a very courageous step
for Crown Prince Abdullah to do. Obviously, Jordan and Egypt have peace with
Israel, so it's not as important if we said it, but for a large Muslim Arab
country like Saudi Arabia to come with this is very significant.
KING: If it worked, would the United States or some international force
have to patrol that peace because of the lack of trust?
King Abdullah : Well, I think we're too early to be able to talk about that,
but definitely the United States and the international community would have to
be an umbrella for further negotiations to get to the point, I hope.
KING: Do you think that plan might come about?
King Abdullah : Well, we're all working for it at the Beirut summit next week,
which is the annual Arab summit meeting. We, as moderates, hope that we're going
to win the day by endorsing the Saudi plan and getting a new basis to get the
Israelis and Palestinians together again.
KING: We'll be right back with His Majesty, King Abdullah of Jordan, on
this LARRY KING LIVE special report. Don't go away.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: We're with King Abdullah of Jordan on this LARRY KING LIVE special
report.
Just to reprise it, are you saying there will be a cease-fire?
King Abdullah : Well, I think that we, as Arab countries, if we have the right
message in Beirut and make it clear to Arabs and Israelis alike that it is in
the vested interest of Arab countries to have peace with Israel, I think that's
a good beginning.
I think the Israelis, at the end of the day, you know, they don't know whether
they'll ever be included into the neighborhood. From the Arab point of view and
the Palestinian point of view, we don't know whether there'll be a Palestinian
state. So I think when we identify the givens, the goals, I think it makes it
much easier to achieve peace.
Because nobody understands what George Tenet is or George Mitchell on the
ground. And if you do achieve George Tenet and George Mitchell, where do you go
from there? If the Palestinians know they're going to have a state, if the
Israelis know that there's going to be peace and security, that they're going to
be able to be safe and they're going to be part of the neighborhood, then it's
worthwhile fighting for peace.
KING: No leader can prevent fanatics, though, can he?
King Abdullah : Definitely not. You're always going to have that. But again,
the closer we get to peace, the more the fanatics are going to try and derail
it, and we have to have the courage to be able to go beyond that.
KING: And what is the position of King Abdullah vis-a-vis Iraq and the
possibility of violence against Iraq by this country? There's was a front page
headline in the "LA Times" yesterday that you strongly oppose it.
However, just to add, a "Newsweek" magazine report's out today, a
knowledgeable source telling "Newsweek" that King Abdullah of Jordan
indicated to Dick Cheney that if the Israeli- Palestinian crisis eased and the
United States moves swiftly and decisively against Saddam and Iraq, Jordan would
have no objection.
King Abdullah : Well, I'd always have to be suspicious of knowledgeable
sources, I think, to begin with.
(CROSSTALK)
KING: ... not said to Cheney.
ABDULLAH: It wasn't. And again, I think there's been a great hype that Dick
Cheney's tour was solely on Iraq. It wasn't. Obviously, Iraq issue is important
to the United States, but he came, I think, to listen to people, to talk about,
obviously, there's concerns about Iraq as we move to the United Nations Security
Council meeting on May 30 about the weapons inspectors.
It equally is important more the Palestinian security force.
KING: What is the Jordanian position regarding Iraq?
King Abdullah : Listen, we really believe that the dialogue is the only way to
proceed. Iraq is such a complicated issue made of three ethnic groups. But if
you were to start an armed conflict with Iraq, you don't know where it is going
to lead. It's not another Afghanistan and the potential of the unknown is what
worries everybody. And so, as a result, we believe let's try dialogue. That is
the way to try to solve the problem. We hope that the United Nations, on May 30,
and the Iraqis are going to be (UNINTELLIGIBLE) enough to come to an agreement
with the United Nations.
KING: If the United States were to prove to the world that there are
weapons of mass destruction being manufactured in Iraq and Iraq were not
allowing inspectors in and they had ways of proving it, would you then support
action?
King Abdullah : Well...
KING: If Iraq didn't do anything? ABDULLAH: I think it is very -- always
very difficult when you get (UNINTELLIGIBLE) because my answer back to that
(UNINTELLIGIBLE). But when you talk about weapons of mass destruction, wouldn't
it be great if we start a policy that will cross the region, from Israel to
India, we can solve the problem, because whenever you have weapons of mass
destruction, there's always going to be a threat around.
KING: So you're saying, right now, action would be a mistake?
King Abdullah : I strongly believe that right now, action would be a mistake
because you don't know the end result and with the crisis going on with the
Palestinians and the Israelis, I don't think the Middle East would handle any
sort of strike.
KING: Do you talk with Mr. Hussein?
King Abdullah : I haven't talked to him, personally, no. He recently sent his
vice president of his (ph). And, again, we encouraged him strongly to be as
flexible and as open-minded as possible with the May 30 deadline in mind.
KING: Your father spoke to him frequently (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
King Abdullah : Well, again, that was in the 80s. It was tied to Iran/Iraq.
KING: Did you like the evil speech, the axis of evil speech by the
president?
King Abdullah : Well, I have to be very careful here because I was asked that
question when I came to see the president right after the speech. And for some
reason, they said that I endorsed the plan. The president has explained to me
when I asked him what he meant by the axis of evil that he was giving those
three countries notice. In other words, from his point of view, that there is a
great question on the way that they were dealing with the international
community, and that they had better make up their minds where they are going to
stand. Otherwise, they are going to have a problem with the United States.
That's how the problem -- or the situation was explained to me by the president.
KING: And that you would endorse?
King Abdullah : Well, again...
KING: Not the terminology?
King Abdullah : Well, I don't think -- I mean, axis of evil, from my point of
view, is probably a very strong term. But again, I think the president after 11
September told the international community you either join the club or you
don't. From his point of view, he felt that those countries were not moving in
the right direction and wanted to give them notice.
KING: The president has not met with Mr. Arafat. Should the vice
president? ABDULLAH: I always think that if you want to solve problems, you need
to sit down face to face with the people, and listen to what they have to say
and what you have to say. So, I would always encourage. I do hope that Arafat
does meet with the vice president, and I hope that the situation presents itself
that the president meets with him too.
KING: Do you talk to President Sharon?
King Abdullah : Well, we have been in (UNINTELLIGIBLE) since Jordan has a very
good relationship with Israel because of the peace that we have between our two
countries. So there is always contact with the Israeli government, especially at
a time when there is crisis because when Arafat has some difficulties, sometimes
we have to get in touch with the Israelis and vice versa to try and help
de-escalate the tension.
KING: Do you talk to Mr. Arafat?
King Abdullah : I talk to him on a regular basis. When he has difficulties and
again to pass messages to him if his needs should be more, or that if he has
difficulties in trying to pass his point of view to either the Israelis or to
the West.
KING: Where do you find your confidence from that this situation can
heal?
King Abdullah : Well...
KING: History is against it.
King Abdullah : Yes, but if we were to have a lack of confidence, that means
that we have given up. And we can't afford that in that part of the world. So,
you know, you get knocked down, you have got to get yourself right back up on
your feet. You have got to keep attacking this problem until you solve it. And
we came very close.
I think that with Arafat and Barak, 98 percent of the problem was almost there
to be solved.
KING: Why didn't they accept that?
King Abdullah : Again, I think it was the timeline. A week later, the Clinton
administration left the scene and Barak lost his elections to Sharon. And I
think that given more time, I think that we would have come along.
KING: Are you satisfied with how the Bush administration to this point is
dealing with the situation?
King Abdullah : Well, again, you have to understand the president's point of
view, that he calls his move the presidential card. And the way he explained it
to me, that when he plays that presidential card, it has to work. If he fails,
then we go back to the drawing board.
So he wants to make sure that everything is in line. I mean, I have all the
admiration for Colin Powell, that's done a terrific job trying to get a crack in
the door to try and solve the problem.
KING: We'll be back with some more moments with King Abdullah of Jordan,
and then THE POINT will come aboard at the bottom of the hour and we'll have our
regular edition of LARRY KING LIVE at 9 Eastern with Rusty Yates.
Right back with more of His Majesty after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was born and raised here. Served in the
military. And has flown, dived, climbed, trekked and camped throughout the
entire country. And so, while he may know this land better than just about
anyone, he's not just any tour guide. He is King Abdullah II, and you are
invited on the royal tour.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: That's courtesy of the travel channel. King -- where was your
bodyguards, they were on the...
King Abdullah : Oh, I was just saying that we had the greatest fun, because to
get those shots, they couldn't have any bodyguards around. So I had the whole
day driving around the desert by myself.
KING: Did you have a tough time convincing security to let you do this?
King Abdullah : Actually, they were pretty flexible. I was very happy. And it
was just nice to be back out by myself in the world again, the real world.
KING: You drive motorcycles?
King Abdullah : Yes. I used to commute to work when I used to work in England.
KING: Like your father, do you fly airplanes?
King Abdullah : I fly helicopters. I learned in the army as an attack
helicopter pilot. And now fly myself around the country.
KING: That travel -- that's a good idea, I guess, to promote tourism?
King Abdullah : Yes, and it was just a different way of doing things. Instead
of going to see the traditional sights, you know, having grown up in Jordan and
being to all the out-of-the-way places, the secret places of Jordan. And the
idea of this show was to go off the beaten path and show, you know, some of the
unusual spots of my country.
KING: A couple of other things, Your Majesty. How goes the war on terror?
ABDULLAH: The war on terror, I believe is going very well. The war on terror
before 11 September was never very good, because unfortunately, the good guys
don't work as well as the bad guys, or they didn't before the 11th of September.
After the incidents of New York and Washington, everybody came together, and
people are trading information, supporting each other. We're going to win this
war. I'm convinced of that.
KING: It's going to be a long time winning though? When's it going to
end, then?
King Abdullah : Well, you're always going to have isolated incidences. But I
think the military part of it will be shorter than people think. And then you
come to the diplomatic, financial, economic side of combating terrorism, and the
use of funding and support.
KING: What's 9-11 done to the Islamic world?
King Abdullah : Well, I believe that it's been a wake-up call. I've always felt
that it was never a struggle between East and West as most people understand it.
There are those extremists that have used our religion to condone the killing of
innocent people. And I think the 11th of September was a wake-up call to the
Muslim masses that there are a bunch of extremists out there that have distorted
our religion so badly, that we need to stand up and put a stop to this. And it's
a element that has really turned our religion upside-down and...
KING: How did that happen, that you could take a religion that all that
we've heard is of peace, and make it a religion of war?
King Abdullah : Well, again, I don't think the international community -- I
mean, the signs were there. His Majesty had warned the West about this in the
early '80s, and people didn't take it seriously. I mean, you could see the
phenomenon growing up, you could see the funding going. And this globalization
was allowed to put its roots all over the world.
Now, we have to combat it. I think it's easier in the Middle East because Arabic
is the first language. I'm concerned about our friends in Asia, because Arabic
is not, and that's where they were more successful, by teaching non-Arabic
speaking Muslims that this is what the Koran or what God stands for. And I think
that the majority of the support that we need to be able to do, once we win our
part of the battlefield, is to help our friends in Asia.
KING: People in the middle are often, or can be targets, as we had the
tragedy with Sadat. Do you -- are you concerned about your safety?
King Abdullah : No, well, I mean, I spent a career in the army for 20 years.
And I always was getting myself into trouble. So I think being in danger is
nothing new. But at the same time, if you have a faith in God, as my father did,
then he was quite sure that he was put on the Earth to do good. And I hope that
I've inherited from him the strength to do the right thing. And you have to do,
come what may, have the courage of your convictions and do what's right. And,
you know, if you're a target, you're a target. But I don't think that that
really makes me lose any sleep.
KING: What are you expecting in Mexico this week?
King Abdullah : Well...
KING: Thursday and Friday, isn't it?
King Abdullah : We have an economic summit there. I do hope to use the
opportunity, obviously, to see the president. It's very important, as I
mentioned earlier, that when we go to Beirut, for us...
KING: That's next week, right?
King Abdullah : Next week, right, yes, for us moderates to win the day that we
to have Arafat leave the territories to come to the conference...
KING: In Beirut?
King Abdullah : In Beirut. Equally important, he has to be allowed to return.
And so I hope to discuss those points with the president.
KING: And then so -- your trip -- you stay here until you go to Mexico?
King Abdullah : I will be leaving to Mexico tomorrow, and then I'll be
returning to Jordan right away after Mexico.
KING: Are you optimistic about the Arab conference?
King Abdullah : I am very optimistic now because there has been a tremendous
consensus by the Arab countries. I was in Syria, the Gulf countries; obviously,
in contact with the Saudis. Even the Iraqis, when I spoke to their vice
president, said that he wouldn't stand against a proposal. They're going to stay
neutral. So, looking at the glass half full there.
KING: Always good seeing you.
King Abdullah : Thank you very much. Always a pleasure.
KING: King Abdullah of Jordan. The king of Jordan has been in that post
for over three years now since the death of his late, great father.
The last thing that I remind you of on this program is that THE POINT is going
to start right now. We'll see you in a half hour.